Property Charter

Presenter: Lindsay Williams Guest(s): Andy Tondi

The Property Charter will provide a framework for black economic empowerment in the property sector. With Andy Tondi, chairman of the Property Charter steering committee

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Where do we stand at the moment with the Property Charter?

ANDY TONDI: We’re very close to the final stages. At the moment we’re discussing targets - even though the draft Property Charter doesn’t have any reference to the targets. We are close to reaching agreement on the targets.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: One point most people are eagerly waiting to hear is the issue of black estate agents. I don’t know how many estate agents there are in South Africa - it seems as though every person I meet is either a full-time or part-time estate agent! Let’s say there are 60,000 estate agents - how many of those are not white?

ANDY TONDI: The data hasn’t been verified, but at this stage it’s been estimated that less than 5,000 of between 50,000 or 60,000 estate agents. We haven’t verified that information, but we are looking at doing something in terms of bringing more black people into that industry.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Certainly. It seems natural - the numbers are disproportionate. Is that one of the key points of the charter?

ANDY TONDI: Yes, it’s going to be one of the key products - you’re going to start seeing some kind of balance, some kind of equity across the board from commercial property through to estate agents.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Do you think the property sector of the economy has lagged behind other sectors - in terms of transformation?

ANDY TONDI: Yes, I think the property sector is a bit behind. There are a lot of reasons for that. The main thing is that we are addressing it at the moment. We’re hoping that within five years - at least after that period we can have some kind of balance, and show some ownership by black people as well.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: You say there are a number of reasons for that - what’s the main reason? Is it simply a lack of training?

ANDY TONDI: It’s mainly because legislation previously excluded black people from owning property in areas where they didn’t live - even where they lived they couldn’t own their own property. It’s because of that legislation. This industry goes through a very long process in terms of acquiring property - so it’s because of that time-lag, but I think with time we can accelerate that, and get there in five years.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Apart from the issue of black estate agents - what else are you focusing on in the charter?

ANDY TONDI: We’re also focusing on black property practitioners ranging from black property managers to black property brokers. There it’s even far less than what we were talking - when we were talking about estate agents. It’s a handful - there are very few. We will be addressing that - at the same time we’ll also be making sure that there’s meaningful ownership by black people in the property industry.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: When’s the final draft going to be ready?

ANDY TONDI: The final draft should be ready by the end of June 2005. At that stage it will be presented to the Department of Public Works.

LINDSAY WILLIAMS: Implementation - when will that take place? Once the final draft has been approved?

ANDY TONDI: We’re hoping in three months from now, and we’re hoping for government approval by October 2005.